"CB" <***@prayforme.com> wrote in message
> "Shawn" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > "Carol Lee Smith" <***@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030716133901.27358Bemail@example.com...
> > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, CB quoted:
> > >
> > > > Today's Founder Quote:
> > > >
> > > > "Jealousy, and local policy mix too much in all our public councils
> > the
> > > > good government of the Union. In a words, the confederation appears
> > me to
> > > > be little more than a shadow without the substance...."
> > > > --George Washington
> > >
> > > Now this out of context quote is a little more interesting than some
> > > the others you and the federalist.com site have offered.
> > >
> > > Why do you suppose the first word in the sentence, "illiberality," was
> > > eliminated?
> > >
> > > Don't you or the federalists like the idea what George Washington was
> > > saying about illiberality?
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > George Washington to James Warren
> > >
> > > 7 Oct. 1785Writings 28:289--91
> > > The war, as you have very justly observed, has terminated most
> > > advantageously for America, and a fair field is presented to our view;
> > > I confess to you freely, My Dr. Sir, that I do not think we possess
> > > or Justice enough to cultivate it properly. Illiberality, Jealousy,
> > > local policy mix too much in all our public councils for the good
> > > government of the Union. In a word, the confederation appears to me to
> > > little more than a shadow without the substance; and Congress a
> > > body, their ordinances being little attended to. To me, it is a
> > > in politics; indeed it is one of the most extraordinary things in
> > > that we should confederate as a Nation, and yet be afraid to give the
> > > rulers of that nation, who are the creatures of our making, appointed
> > > a limited and short duration, and who are amenable for every action,
> > > recallable at any moment, and are subject to all the evils which they
> > > be instrumental in producing, sufficient powers to order and direct
> > > affairs of the same. By such policy as this the wheels of Government
> > > clogged, and our brightest prospects, and that high expectation which
> > > entertained of us by the wondering world, are turned into
> > > and from the high ground on which we stood, we are descending into the
> > > vale of confusion and darkness.
> > >
> > > That we have it in our power to become one of the most respectable
> > > upon Earth, admits, in my humble opinion, of no doubt; if we would but
> > > pursue a wise, just, and liberal policy towards one another, and would
> > > keep good faith with the rest of the World: that our resources are
> > > and encreasing, none can deny; but while they are grudgingly applyed,
> > > not applyed at all, we give a vital stab to public faith, and shall
> > > in the eyes of Europe, into contempt.
> > > --------------
> > >
> > > Dontcha just love the part which says: "That we have it in our power
> > > become one of the most respectable Nations upon Earth, admits, in my
> > > humble opinion, of no doubt; if we would but pursue a wise, just, and
> > > liberal policy towards one another, and would keep good faith with the
> > > rest of the World"
> > >
> > I liked the bit about "a wise, just and LIBERAL policy" :)
> To bad Leftist DemocRATs have peverted the word. Just like they've
> nateral affection.
No dumb ass it wasn't the democrats who perverted the word its the
conservative morons like you who keep insisting that leftist is synonimous
with liberal. It is not now nor has it ever been so.
Yes there are some liberals who like big government but there are just as
many who like limited government as well as limited corporate power.
Do not think you can pidgeon hole every liberal into your little strawman
> I liked the bit about "we would but pursue a wise, just, and...policy
> towards one another, and would keep good faith with the rest of the
> The Justice part appeals to me because of what America's role in the world
> has become...
Once again you leave out that thing which you despise.
let me repair it for you.
"a wise, just and LIBERAL policy"
Keeping good faith would also imply keeping ones word and complying with the
treaties we've signed but that doesn't work with the conservative vision of
keeping good faith does it?
Face it you are all about lying and deciet as long as it is to your benifit.
> "Our unalterable resolution would be to be free. They have
> attempted to subdue us by force, but God be praised! in vain. Their
> arts may be more dangerous then their arms. Let us then ... under
> God trust our cause to our swords." --Samuel Adams
History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people
maintaining a free civil government. This marks the
lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as
religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own
purpose. (Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Baron von Humboldt, 1813;
from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations,
Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 370)
I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American
people which declared that their legislature
should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of
separation between church and state. (Thomas Jefferson, as President,
in a letter to the Baptists of Danbury,
Connecticut, 1802; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations,
Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p.
... And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that
religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and
suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political
intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as
bitter and bloody persecutions. ... error of opinion may be tolerated
where reason is left free to combat it. ... I deem the
essential principles of our government . ..[:] Equal and exact justice
to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious
or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and
freedom of person under the protection of the habeas
corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected. (Thomas Jefferson,
"First Inaugural Address," March 4, 1801. From
Mortimer Adler, ed., The Annals of America: 1797-1820, Domestic
Expansion and Foreign Entanglements, Vol. 4;
Chicago: Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1968, pp. 144-145.
All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the
will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be
rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal
rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate
which would be oppression. (Thomas Jefferson, "First Inaugural
Address," March 4, 1801; from George Seldes, ed.,
The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p.
"I know," Jefferson had written, ... "that Gouverneur Morris, who
pretended to be in his [George Washington's] secrets
& believed himself to be so, has often told me that Genl. Washington
believed no more of that system [Christianity] than
he himself did." (Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion,
Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, p.
85. Jefferson's comments were written in his journal, Anas, in
February, 1800, according to Boller, p. 80.)
To preserve the freedom of the human mind then and freedom of the
press, every spirit should be ready to devote itself
to martyrdom; for as long as we may think as we will, and speak as we
think, the condition of man will proceed in
improvement. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Green Mumford, June
18, 1799. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The
American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a
Free Society, New York: George Braziller,
1965, p. 341.)
In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his
abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire
wealth and power by this combination than by deserving
them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever
preached to man into mystery and jargon,
unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their
purposes. (Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio
Spofford, 1814; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations,
Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371)
A professorship of Theology should have no place in our institution
[the University of Virginia]. (Thomas Jefferson, letter
to Thomas Cooper, October 7, 1814. From Gorton Carruth and Eugene
Ehrlich, eds., The Harper Book of American
Quotations, New York: Harper & Row, 1988, p. 492.)
... Jefferson, who as a careful historian had made a study of the
origin of the maxim [that the common law is inextricably
linked with Christianity], challenged such an assertion. He noted that
"the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons
were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of
Christ pronounced or that such a character
existed .... What a conspiracy this, between Church and State." (Leo
Pfeffer, Religion, State, and the Burger Court,
Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books, 1984, p. 121.)
... The most revealing writings concerned the commonly repeated maxim
that Christianity was part of the common law.
In two posthumously published writings, an appendix to his Reports of
Cases Determined in the General Court and a
letter to Major John Cartwright, Thomas Jefferson took issue with the
maxim. He traced the erroneous interpretation to
a seventeenth-century law commentator who, Jefferson argued,
misinterpreted a fifteenth-century precedent. He then
traced the error forward to his favorite bte noire, Lord Mansfield,
who wrote that "the essential principles of revealed
religion are part of the common law." Jefferson responded with a
classic, positivistic critique: Mansfield "leaves us at our
peril to find out what, in the opinion of the judge, and according to
the measures of his foot or his faith, are those
essential principles of revealed religion, obligatory on us as part of
the common law." (Daniel R. Ernst, "Church-State
Issues and the Law: 1607-1870" in John F. Wilson, ed., Church and
State in America: A Bibliographic Guide. The
Colonial and Early National Periods," New York: Greenwood Press, 1986,
p. 337. Ernst gives his source as Thomas
Jefferson, "Whether Christianity is Part of the Common Law?")
I too can quote influencial men to support my case.
<sniped biblical garbage that has no relavance to our secular government.>
> I admit it's hard to love my neighbor when my neighbor is always trying to
> get into my pocket and confusing 'liberal' with Liberty.
> Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is
> 2 Corinthians 3:17
It behoves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to
resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their
case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. (Thomas
Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803.
From Daniel B. Baker, ed., Political Quotations, Detroit: Gale
Research, Inc., 1990, p. 189.)
Let me explain this one for you since your mind seems rather simplistic.
The essence of this quote is that one should resist the urge to enact
legislation that can be used to oppress or discriminate against others less
those same rules be later used against you by the government.
Does patriot act part 1 and 2 seem oppresive in the powers bequiefed to the
federal government? If not then I suggest that you return your right wing
credencials. Your nothing more than a leftist conservative who is perfectly
happy with large oppressive government so long as it oppresses those with
whom you disagree.
Yet once said powers are established there is no protection to you should
other factions come into power and your views fall out of favour.
Watch your own house there conservative wank. Its the right who is falling
over themselves to shread the constitution and the protections provided to
you by the bill of rights those protections that not only protect those you
hate but are your only protection against oppression as well.